HOW???
On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Pavlo Ivanchenko wrote:
> Why isn't the Ukrainian navy removing the sunken ships in Sevastopol? I
> suggest booby trapping the pipelines.
>
> PI
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Ivan Kravchenko <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The Ukrainian Navy listed in 2007 27 combat ships and cutters. The
> > Russians blocked in Donuzlav 9 vessels:
> >
> > -two amphibious assault ships;
> > -corvette "Vinnytsya"
> > - mine sweeepers "chernihiv" and "Henichesk"
> > -cutter "Feodisiya" (special ops)
> > -commanding corvette "Slavutych"
> > -corvette "Ternopil"
> >
> > There is also in that place the only Ukrainian submarine "Zaporizzya". It
> > has never been fit to battle and currently is welded to the pier to
> > prevent its sinking.
> >
> >
> > The rest of the Ukrainian Navy, including ocean going frigate "Herman
> > Sahaydachny" is in Odesa.
> >
> > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Olena Boyko wrote:
> >
> > > KIND OF FAR FETCHED, NOT THAT THAT EVER STOPPED PUTIN.
> > >
> > > STRAITS ARE NOT NEAR RUSSIAN TERRITORY, TURKEY HAS NAVAL BASES NEAR
> > BLACK SEA ENTRANCE, WHICH IS QUITE WIDE AND DEEP, AND THEY ARE PROBABLY ON
> > HIGH ALERT. IF RUSSIA BLOCKS THE STRAITS, MY SCENARIO IS THAT THEY GET
> > BLOWN UP.
> > >
> > > ODESSA'S PORT IS WIDE OPEN, NOT AN ENCLOSED HARBOR LIKE IN OCHAKIV UP
> > THE COAST. NOT POSSIBLE FOR RUSSIAN SHIPS TO APPROACH STEALTHILY. IT IS A
> > SPRAWLING SEAPORT WITH RUMANIAN COAST AT MOST A FEW HOURS AWAY.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the caps. I have sailed these waters many times in my
> > sailboat. To block the entrance to Sevastopol harbour is easy as the
> > breakwaters extend way out and the narrow entrance was always
> > booby-trapped. Russian blockade and sunk ship is inside the breakwater.
> > >
> > > Lack of foresight that Ukrainian ships did not move out of their slips
> > and stay outside the harbour. Underwater sSabotage was a consideration but
> > I hope there is a Ukrainian Seal Diving Team.
> > >
> > > The Russian fleet there would have been decimated if all the Ukrainian
> > captains had taken their ships out of Sevastopol and streamed toward Odessa
> > when independance was declared. We had only one hero, Capt. Nastenko, who
> > saved the Sahaidachnyj for Ukraine. The otehrs chickened out and most of
> > the ships became Russian property.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mike Reshitnyk
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:20 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [politics] Fw: Putin's Possible Next Move - Mikolayev &
> > Odessa
> > >
> > >
> > > ". . . The USS GHW Bush (CVN-77) is currently in Athens. Bring it up
> > to the Black Sea, along with its battle group, have it stand off of Odessa,
> > and put up a no-fly zone over both Odessa and Mickolayev . . ."
> > >
> > >
> > > As warships, and under the Montreux Convention, the United States
> > would have to get permission from Turkey who control the straits (there are
> > two of them) to cross the straits.
> > >
> > > Assuming they do, wouldn't it be funny if once in the Black Sea and
> > off Odessa, Russia sinks some blockade ships across the straits - one is
> > about 700m wide, the other about 1200m wide - trapping the aircraft carrier
> > and its escorting battle group?
> > >
> > > Of course, this would be in defiance of Turkey and international law
> > and cause tons of additional international problems, but Russia has done
> > stranger things in the past
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Olena Boyko
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:18 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: [politics] Fw: Putin's Possible Next Move - Mikolayev & Odessa
> > >
> > >
> > > This is from private communication. I have erased an identifying
> > items and am sending it only as a FYI to share.
> > >
> > > Putin's Possible Next Move - Mikolayev & Odessa
> > >
> > > I think Putin's next move might be against Mickolayev or Odessa and,
> > if I'm right, it would be catastrophic, for Ukraine, for Europe and for the
> > > US Administration and US global interests in general. I think the US
> > > needs to be ready for this, and hopes that it doesn't happen. The USS
> > > GHW Bush (CVN-77) is currently in Athens. Bring it up to the Black
> > > Sea, along with its battle group, have it stand off of Odessa, and put
> > > up a no-fly zone over both Odessa and Mickolayev. That would deter
> > > the Russians and limit their incursion to Crimea (at least for now).
> > >
> > > I was listening.....It was an interview with a commodities trader who,
> > of course,
> > > gets paid by trying to figure out what is the absolute worst-case
> > > scenario, and then figuring out how to deal with it. He said, among
> > > other things, that the commodity that has increased the most this year
> > > was not gold. It is corn. Ukraine is the world's 3rd largest corn
> > > exporter. I think part of the reason, aside from the lousy weather
> > in
> > > the US, is that there is some concern that Odessa and Mickolayev, which
> > > are the 2 largest export terminals in Ukraine will be cut off. If
> > > people are willing to bet money on even this possibility then the US
> > > should listen. American taxpayers pay people to think about what the
> > > absolute worst thing that can happen, and plan for it. Anyway, this
> > > guy convinced me.
> > >
> > > Russia shipped a lot of the "troops" who are in Crimea by transport
> > from Sochi, so they now have the ships available in Sevastopol to move to
> > > Odessa and Mickolayev. It would be very easy for the Russians, once
> > > they've secured Crimea, to move all these troops a few miles west and
> > take both of these cities and, effectively, shut down a major part of
> > > Ukraine's economy. It would be the one thing that Putin can do,
> > > today, that would completely wreck the new Ukrainian Govt. I don't
> > > they are going to be deterred by the rhetoric currently coming out of
> > > either the Administration or the EU. In addition, it would secure
> > > Crimea's water and power supply, both of which come from around
> > Mickolayev.
> > >
> > > It would be a very simple and low cost move to have the USS GHW Bush
> > and her battle group transit the Bosporus, and I think it would go a long
> > way toward insuring that the worst outcome won't happen.
> > > They could be on station in 2 days.
> > > Conversely, let's consider what would happen if
> > > Putin does move against Mickolayev and Odessa, and it comes out that
> > the
> > > GHW Bush was in Odessa and made no move to transit to the Black Sea.
> > > It would be Benghazi on steroids
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Reshitnyk
> > > http://www.pbase.com/madmedic
> >
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