Americans have no appetite for war (after the Iraq and Afghanistan
nightmare). But it actually appears there are enough Republicans to go
along with the Obama administration to do whatever necessary to stop Putin
at this point short of putting boots on the ground. My hope is that they
learn the lesson of Afghanistan, meaning that is that it is possible to
stop the Russians by arming the locals. This, along with sanctions by the
rest of the G7 to target his court / enablers, could make a difference.
But much more could and needs to be done to sow discontent within Russia,
for the last thing Putin needs at this point is unrest within his borders.
He is so good at stirring things up within Ukraine's borders, it is time
that the same be done to him. Now would be the time for Chechens to stage
a second wave of unrest (can the Crimean Tatars not be covertly asked their
brethren to send the signal??)....all those regions in the Russian far east
that have longed for a break....this would be the time!!! And if there were
a way to break open the internet to send the message of Maidan to the
Russian masses, find it.
In the meantime, in Ukraine, the roundup of former Berkut and
titushkyneeds to happen. Russian "tourists" who come to stir things
up must be
rounded up and neutralized asap (as is being done). How about a nice show
trial of the arrested Russian Nazi who tried to take over Donetsk? Speed
that up - and broadcast it far and wide. And of course, keep releasing all
the damning evidence of Yanukovych's theft and treachery. Put that on
YT1+1 24/7.
There is definitely a way to win this, especially if the Americans are
engaged and ready to help out. Just give them a multi-vectored and logical
plan. We know the evil that is Russian chauvinism and empire, and we also
know how to exploit its weak spots better than any Washington think tank.
If Obama can continue to man the phones and pressure the UK and Germany to
fall into line regarding sanctions (and the illegal invasion of an
independent country scares everyone and is the ultimate and most powerful
argument), we get some arms to defend ourselves, Putin will be in the
dustbin of history. I hope someone gave Yatsyniuk some sort of plan of
action along these lines to present to the Americans behind closed doors.
Slava Ykpaini!!
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:34 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> We're not talking about the "start" but about the "continuation" of his
> operation. Had the world not been aroused by the Crimean invasion, he could
> easily have repeated Hitler's feats of 1940-1941 west and east. I basically
> agree with your comments, but am optimistic that at the moment he has been
> stopped. What happens next will become clearer after the Yatseniuk meeting
> with Obama.
>
>
>
> Quoting Serbyn Roman <[email protected]>:
>
> Putin had a better base in Crimea for the start of his operations than in
>> the north & east. Crimea had Russian forces legitimately stationed there
>> which could easily be reinforced without transgressing the state boundary.
>> North & east would have been blatant aggression. The second point is that
>> Putin's was a "humanitarian" mission, bringing aid to the endangered and
>> oppressed Russian population. In Crimea the Russian ethnic population is in
>> the majority and so the argument for their defense can be more easily
>> defended. Third, the 1954 transfer of Crimea to Ukraine, can be more easily
>> argued for a return of that piece of property to the original owner. And
>> finally, the trump card is the appeal of the democratic principle of the
>> "will of the people": a referendum in an already autonomous republic, where
>> 58% of the population is ethnic Russian with pro-Russian results (whatever
>> the way in which they were obtained) is much more easily defended before
>> the outside world than in any other region of Ukraine, all of which have an
>> ethnically Ukrainian majority.
>>
>> Now whether Putin intends to stop with the acquisition of Crimea, or all
>> of north& south Ukraine, or go for broke - all of Ukraine (his ultimate
>> goal) will depend on the opportunities, as they present themselves.
>>
>> God (and the USA) defends those who defend themselves.
>>
>> This is the way I see these things, at this stage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/11/14, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Indeed. Were it not for the growing and unexpected western and world
>>> support Putin would easily have invaded from the East and North, and we
>>> would be fighting him somewhere west of the Dnipro (with partisan hit and
>>> run elsewhere). At the moment he has had to change his strategy:
>>>
>>> http://www.unian.ua/politics/895429-rf-mae-namir-
>>> napravlyati-v-donetsku-oblast-diversiyni-grupi-sbu.html
>>>
>>> Quoting Ivan Kravchenko <[email protected]>:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >The siruation with the Ukrainian Army has all the signs of state
>>> >treason. All the major Army Divisions stationed near Luhansk, Kharkiv,
>>> >and Chernihiv in the Eastern Ukraine had been disbanded. What's left was
>>> >stationed mostly in the West and in the Center, i.e. facing NATO
>>> >countries, not the biggest threat which would be Russia. I already
>>> >expressed my very strong opinion about so called "Kharkiv
>>> >Accord": THREASON! All those who were extremally active in pushing
>>> through
>>> >that treaty should be investigated and face state treason charges.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On 11 Mar 2014 [email protected] wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>Dream on -- he will return but in handcuffs
>>> >>
>>> >>It is criminal to decimate the army so that Ukraine had only 6,000
>>> combat ready troops :O so Ukraine was not even in a position to defend
>>> itself. This no doubt was part of the master plan of Putins.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>Defiant Yanukovych Says He'll Return To Kyiv
>>> >>http://www.rferl.org/content/yanukovych-ukraine-
>>> appearance-russia-rostov-crimea/25292472.html
>>> >>By RFE/RL
>>> >>March 11, 2014
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>http://www.rferl.org/media/video/25293029.html
>>> >>
>>> >>A defiant Viktor Yanukovych, ousted as Ukrainian president, has
>>> reiterated from exile that he is still the country's leader and remains
>>> commander of the country's armed forces.
>>> >>
>>> >>In a short statement delivered from the southern Russian city of
>>> Rostov-on-Don, Yanukovych said he is sure the armed forces would refuse to
>>> obey any "criminal orders" and that he intends to return to Kyiv as
>>> "circumstances permit," saying, "I am sure it won't be long."
>>> >>
>>> >>He added: "I want to remind everyone that I remain not only the single
>>> legitimate president of Ukraine, but also the supreme commander in chief
>>> [of the armed forces]. I did not discontinue my duties before the end of my
>>> term. I am alive. I have not been removed from my post by means defined in
>>> the constitution of Ukraine."
>>> >>
>>> >>He denounced the West as "protectors of the dark forces" currently in
>>> power, calling the current government "a band of ultranationalists and
>>> neo-fascists." He said a presidential election set for May is illegal.
>>> >>
>>> >>"In the U.S. and some other countries, they insist that I have lost my
>>> legitimacy as the president because I have fled the country. I repeat: I
>>> have not fled anywhere," Yanukovych said. "At the moment when the
>>> government buildings and presidential administration were seized by
>>> radicals, indeed, when they were seizing power in an unconstitutional way,
>>> with arms in their hands, I was, as you all know, in Ukraine, in Kharkiv,
>>> then in Donetsk, and then in Crimea. Again, at the moment of the coup, I
>>> did not leave the territory of Ukraine."
>>> >>
>>> >>RFE/RL LIVE BLOG on the Ukraine crisis
>>> >>http://www.rferl.org/contentlive/live-blog-crisis-
>>> in-ukraine/25287590.html
>>> >>
>>> >>He lamented that Crimea is going to secede from Ukraine, blaming the
>>> actions of the "extremists" in power. But he predicted the country "will
>>> rise up and unify."
>>> >>
>>> >>It was Yanukovych's first appearance since February 28, when he also
>>> spoke from Rostov-on-Don and claimed to still be Ukraine's legitimate
>>> leader.
>>> >>
>>> >>Meanwhile, pro-Russia lawmakers in Crimea, occupied by Russian forces,
>>> have approved a declaration on the republic's independence.
>>> >>
>>> >>http://www.rferl.org/content/crimea-independence-declaration-approval-
>>> parliament-ukraine-russia/25292918.html
>>> >>
>>> >>The lawmakers announced that the March 11 adoption of the declaration
>>> is a technical step ahead of a March 16 referendum that will ask voters
>>> whether Crimea should join Russia. Seventy-eight out of 81 lawmakers
>>> present voted in favor.
>>> >>
>>> >>Ukraine's parliament meanwhile warned the parliament in Crimea that it
>>> faces dissolution unless it cancels the referendum.
>>> >>
>>> >>ALSO READ: Journalists, Activists Reported Missing In Crimea
>>> >>http://www.rferl.org/content/journalists-activists-
>>> reported-missing-in-crimea/25291690.html
>>> >>
>>> >>Western states and the post-Yanukovych government in Kyiv have said
>>> they will not recognize the vote.
>>> >>
>>> >>French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius says European Union sanctions
>>> could be imposed on Russia as early as this week.
>>> >>
>>> >>Speaking on French radio, Fabius said that if Russia responds
>>> positively, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will visit Moscow and
>>> sanctions won't be imposed immediately. But, he warned, if Moscow responds
>>> negatively, travel restrictions and sanctions targeting the assets of
>>> individual Russians could be implemented.
>>> >>
>>> >>"The vote is illegal and the annexation of Crimea by Russia would also
>>> be illegal," Fabius said. "So we cannot accept something that is illegal
>>> and which will also have very serious consequences because it means the
>>> destabilization of Ukraine. Ukraine is between the European Union, and
>>> Russia and it is in the interests of Russia and the European Union for
>>> Ukraine to remain stable. But Russia's actions have upset everything."
>>> >>
>>> >>Separately, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, on a
>>> visit to Estonia, has offered assurances that the Baltic states will be
>>> protected from the crisis by their membership in NATO.
>>> >>
>>> >>State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said that in a telephone
>>> conversation on March 8 that U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry had laid
>>> out a number of ideas to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov.
>>> >>
>>> >>She said Kerry is prepared to take part in further talks only if
>>> Russia is ready to engage on these proposals.
>>> >>
>>> >>Washington reportedly wants Moscow to cease its military advances in
>>> Ukraine, stop its drive to annex Crimea, and end "provocative steps." The
>>> State Department said Kerry has yet to receive any response.
>>> >>
>>> >>Earlier, Lavrov said that Kerry had asked to postpone a visit to
>>> Moscow on March 10, after initially accepting the invitation. At a meeting
>>> with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi, Lavrov also said that the
>>> proposals made by Kerry "did not really suit" Russia.
>>> >>
>>> >>The Security Council met again behind closed doors on March 10 to
>>> discuss the Ukraine crisis, its fifth meeting on the issue in 10 days.
>>> >>
>>> >>Based on reporting by AP, Reuters, ITAR-TASS, dpa, Interfax, and RFE/RL
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Tue Apr 01 2014 - 00:58:05 EST